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theuserbl

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  • "theuserbl" started this thread

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Date of registration: Dec 20th 2008

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1

Friday, October 16th 2009, 6:54pm

Do it like ...

Do it like Game Editor and IntelliJ - make Jabaco OpenSource:
Game Editor goes OpenSource:
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/F…ows-830356.html
IntelliJ IDEA goes OpenSource
http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/J…rce-830921.html

And very important: Porting it to the JVM on the long way.

The current Jabaco is "only" a half step. Make a full step!
To use Visual Basic 6, you need only Windows. No JVM or other thing are needed.
To use Java you need ony a any hardware and OperatingSystem, on which runs the JDK.

But Jabaco is between two chairs: You need Windows (or in the future WINE) and the JVM.
This have a lot of disadvantages.

There is anytime the question, why Jabaco is written in Visual Basic and not in Java.
There can be good answers:
- The Jabaco IDE is better integrated in Windows
- The Compiler is in native-code and runs so faster
- It is easier to develop
- ...

But all reasons, which are for an Jabaco written in VB6 are also reasons to use Visual Basic 6 or Visusal Basic .net instead of Jabaco.
So, all reasons for a Jabaco written in VB6 are reasons against Jabaco itself.

Why then using Jabaco?
There can be also good reasons:
- The created programs are platformindependet
- The access to the big bunch of Java-classes, which exists
- ...

But with this, we are already at the beginning: Why then using VB6 for Jabaco?

Other disadvantages of a Jabaco in VB6 are:
- The programs in the designer are looking with its Look And Feel different, then at the result
- Java-IDEs using for example Java-Beans:
http://www.ecst.csuchico.edu/~amk/foo/ad…otes/beans/BDK/
https://bean-builder.dev.java.net/
http://72.5.124.55/products/jfc/tsc/articles/persistence/
http://jbeanstudio.sourceforge.net/
Jabaco calling something like that "User controls". Java-Beans are written in Java itself. And so the Designer having only the "Cursor" or "Pointer" integrated. All other widgets are Java-Beans / User-Controls, which have its own Icons for the IDE integrated. And any external developer can extend the Designer with own controls. Jabaco itself doing something like this for its IDE, whith integrating Scintilla as a "User Control".
In the .NET-world Java-Beans are called .NET Components, by the way.
- If Jabaco would be written in Java, it could be easily ported step by step to Jabaco itself. An important step, to have Jabco in anytime written in itself. So developing Jabaco is then the same like using Jabaco.
As you can read at
http://www.linux-magazin.de/Online-Artik…s-Ettrich-Nokia
it is very important to using its own product.
Matthias Ettrich (developer of Qt and KDE) says: " Wir – also viele der Qt Entwickler - haben Qt stets auch selbst benutzt und die daraus gewonnenen Erfahrungen in das Produkt einfließen lassen. Ich schätze mal, dass gut die Hälfte der Verbesserungen und Erweiterung in Qt ihren Ursprung im eigenen Team haben.". (in english: "We - the developer of Qt - having Qt always used ourself and the reached experience, integrated in the product. I think, that the half of the improvements and extensions of Qt, have found its beginnings in our team")
But that is not possible with Jabaco, if Jabaco is written in VB6. Then you find bugs in VB6 and will be better in developing VB6, but that helps not much Jabaco.

Greatings
theuserbl

Manuel

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  • "Manuel" is male

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Date of registration: Jul 16th 2008

Location: Erlangen, Germany

Occupation: Software Developer

Hobbies: Jabaco, game theory, text-mining

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2

Friday, October 16th 2009, 9:40pm

Quoted

Do it like Game Editor and IntelliJ - make Jabaco OpenSource:
We've discussed this topic enough for the moment. You know my position.

Quoted

The current Jabaco is "only" a half step. Make a full step!
To use Visual Basic 6, you need only Windows. No JVM or other thing are needed.
To use Java you need ony a any hardware and OperatingSystem, on which runs the JDK.
But Jabaco is between two chairs: You need Windows (or in the future WINE) and the JVM.
This have a lot of disadvantages.
Very misleading. You can write platform independent software with Jabaco. Let's define your statement more detailed and neutral. If you would like to write normal software with VB6 you need: the IDE, the Compiler and the VB6-Runtimes. If you would like to write software with Java you need: the IDE, the Compiler and the Java-Runtimes. If you would like to write software with Jabaco you need: the IDE, the Compiler and the Java-Runtimes. If you would like to run VB6 applications you need the VB6 Runtimes (Windows only). If you would like to run Java or Jabaco Software you need the Java Runtimes (platform independent).

Quoted

There is anytime the question, why Jabaco is written in Visual Basic and not in Java.
It's VB6, C++ and Java. I'll switch to Jabaco, C++ and Java in future.

Quoted

So, all reasons for a Jabaco written in VB6 are reasons against Jabaco itself.
Ok. Let's see what you mean:

Quoted

- The Jabaco IDE is better integrated in Windows
There are several good Java Frameworks. It's not a reason against Java/Jabaco.

Quoted

- The Compiler is in native-code and runs so faster
The only reason why it runs fast enough is C++. Java, Jabaco and C++ are much much faster than VB6.

Quoted

- It is easier to develop
Jabaco too.

Quoted

[...] also reasons to use Visual Basic 6 or Visusal Basic .net instead of Jabaco [...]
There are several reasons why you should use Jabaco instead. And there are much more in future (mobile development, enterprise applications, web applications).

Quoted

But with this, we are already at the beginning: Why then using VB6 for Jabaco?
I'll translate several parts to C++ and Jabaco.

Quoted

Other disadvantages of a Jabaco in VB6 are:
- The programs in the designer are looking with its Look And Feel different, then at the result
I'll improve the Design-Editor and rewrite in C++ with Jabaco/JNI-connection. I've completed several tests successfully. Version 1.6 will handle the Java LAF in the Designer :)

Quoted

- Java-IDEs using for example Java-Beans:
It's already in my planning.

Quoted

Matthias Ettrich says:
We - the developer of Qt - having Qt always used ourself and the reached experience, integrated in the product. I think, that the half of the improvements and extensions of Qt, have found its beginnings in our team
Very similar to the Jabaco philosophy. The Jabaco Framework is Open Source. It's not possible to compare the QT Framework with the Jabaco Compiler / the Jabaco IDE. QT is a C++ framework used by C++ developers. The Jabaco framework is a Java/BASIC framework used by Java/BASIC developers. How many QT developers are able to improve the C++ compiler? Anytime when I use QT it was never necessary to modify the C++ compiler. The Jabaco framework is Open Source with a very free license. You can extend and modify anything.

Btw. You've started this topic several times ago in several threads. Would be great if you can focus this topic in one thread in future.

theuserbl

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  • "theuserbl" started this thread

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Friday, October 16th 2009, 10:07pm

Quoted

- The Compiler is in native-code and runs so faster
The only reason why it runs fast enough is C++.


The Compiler is written in C++? I thoughted, that nearly all of the IDE and Compiler are VB6.


Quoted

There are several reasons why you should use Jabaco instead. And there are much more in future (mobile development, enterprise applications, web applications).


Yes, for the JVM written programs can also be started per Webstart. With this, there comes lots of more possibilities.


Quoted

I'll translate several parts to C++ and Jabaco.


Sounds nice. :-)

Quoted

I'll improve the Design-Editor and rewrite in C++ with Jabaco/JNI-connection. I've completed several tests successfully. Version 1.6 will handle the Java LAF in the Designer :)


Hmmm... lets see at Version 1.6.


Quoted

Quoted

- Java-IDEs using for example Java-Beans:
It's already in my planning.


Sure, if you port the IDE to the JavaVM, then its no problem.


Greatings
theuserbl

Manuel

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  • "Manuel" is male

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Date of registration: Jul 16th 2008

Location: Erlangen, Germany

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Friday, October 16th 2009, 11:14pm

Quoted

Quoted

Quoted

- The Compiler is in native-code and runs so faster
The only reason why it runs fast enough is C++.
The Compiler is written in C++? I thoughted, that nearly all of the IDE and Compiler are VB6.
Many parts are written in VB6 and I tried to use VB6 only. But it's not possible to reach acceptable performance without C++.

Quoted

Sure, if you port the IDE to the JavaVM, then its no problem.
This process will take some time.

spysonic

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About me: A beginner programmer.

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Thursday, July 31st 2014, 9:04am

version 1.6...

please..
.
.
Spare me, im new to Programming

jbExplorer

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Friday, August 1st 2014, 7:26pm

version 1.6...

please..


Sorry about that, chief.

jbExplorer

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Friday, August 1st 2014, 7:31pm

"I'll translate several parts to C++ and Jabaco."

Nice. I Always thought, it made sense to port as much as possible to Jabaco, since its syntax is so similar to VB.

"I'll improve the Design-Editor and rewrite in C++ with Jabaco/JNI-connection. I've completed several tests successfully. Version 1.6 will handle the Java LAF in the Designer

Many parts are written in VB6 and I tried to use VB6 only. But it's not possible to reach acceptable performance without C++."


Thanks for the update, Manuel. Although the open source request would be cool, even more important would be reliving our guilt. I hope, that you charge something for the next version. Jabaco, even the current Beta version, has been of immense value to me.

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