Thursday, March 5th 2009, 4:59pm
Thought about Jabaco
Hi @ all.
I still deliberate, if it makes sence to use Jabaco as OpenSource-Fan.
The Framework is OpenSource, but the Compiler is not and the IDE runs only on Windows.
I like the syntax of Basic much more, then that of C/C++/Java/C#. But is this enough to go in the Jabaco-trap. Its similar to the Java-trap which exists before Java was OpenSource.
And yes, Java is OpenSource. And there are a lot of languages then Java, for the JavaVM, which are OpenSource: Scala, Rhino, JRuby, BeanShell, Groovy, Nice, Fan, Component Pascal, Jython, Pizza, etc. and there are others like JavaFX Script, which will be OpenSource in the future.
Why then in hell writing with an ClosedSource Compiler for the JavaVM? Why not learning one of the other languages?, I ask myself.
If I would develop on Windows with free of charege tools, there is also the Visual Basic.net Express Edition. And the created programs runs with Mono also on Linux and MacOSX.
Its obviously where to go the Jabaco-way.
Manuel waits until the Jabaco-community is big enough and Jabaco is known enough. Then from future versions, will be sold licensed to use of Jabaco. The infrastructure already exists. You must already register yourself, until you can use Jabaco without limitations - otherwise its only a demo-program.
If it would not his plan to do so, why then he makes Jabaco not OpenSource?
There existsing everytime the hope for me, that if Jabacos community is big enough, that there is someone (or a group of developers) who rewrite the Jabaco-Compiler in Jabaco itself as OpenSource.
Btw. is since some days ago Qt 4.5 under the LGPL out. So it would be nice, if the compiler and the IDE - so long they are not rewritten in Jabaco - are ported to it.
Qt also includes XML-handling and so on, so that MSXML isn't needed.
But I think, that are only hopeless whishes.
Would be better, that I learn Java.
I still deliberate, if it makes sence to use Jabaco as OpenSource-Fan.
The Framework is OpenSource, but the Compiler is not and the IDE runs only on Windows.
I like the syntax of Basic much more, then that of C/C++/Java/C#. But is this enough to go in the Jabaco-trap. Its similar to the Java-trap which exists before Java was OpenSource.
And yes, Java is OpenSource. And there are a lot of languages then Java, for the JavaVM, which are OpenSource: Scala, Rhino, JRuby, BeanShell, Groovy, Nice, Fan, Component Pascal, Jython, Pizza, etc. and there are others like JavaFX Script, which will be OpenSource in the future.
Why then in hell writing with an ClosedSource Compiler for the JavaVM? Why not learning one of the other languages?, I ask myself.
If I would develop on Windows with free of charege tools, there is also the Visual Basic.net Express Edition. And the created programs runs with Mono also on Linux and MacOSX.
Its obviously where to go the Jabaco-way.
Manuel waits until the Jabaco-community is big enough and Jabaco is known enough. Then from future versions, will be sold licensed to use of Jabaco. The infrastructure already exists. You must already register yourself, until you can use Jabaco without limitations - otherwise its only a demo-program.
If it would not his plan to do so, why then he makes Jabaco not OpenSource?
There existsing everytime the hope for me, that if Jabacos community is big enough, that there is someone (or a group of developers) who rewrite the Jabaco-Compiler in Jabaco itself as OpenSource.
Btw. is since some days ago Qt 4.5 under the LGPL out. So it would be nice, if the compiler and the IDE - so long they are not rewritten in Jabaco - are ported to it.
Qt also includes XML-handling and so on, so that MSXML isn't needed.
But I think, that are only hopeless whishes.
Would be better, that I learn Java.
Thursday, March 5th 2009, 5:49pm
I'm also a fan of OpenSource projects. But my reasons for that seems different from yours. E.g. I use the Java framework sources to find bugs, or to understand how the things work together. OpenSource is very transparent and thats what I like and need. The only thing you need to get this transparency for Jabaco is the Framework. And this part is OpenSource.
Quoted
I still deliberate, if it makes sence to use Jabaco as OpenSource-Fan.
The Framework is OpenSource, but the Compiler is not and the IDE runs only on Windows.
Not sure why you asked - but I won't persuade you if you see more benefits in other languages / compilers / development environment.
Why then in hell writing with an ClosedSource Compiler for the JavaVM? Why not learning one of the other languages?, I ask myself.
You have the agony of choice. And one of this options is Jabaco - it's also free for you.
If I would develop on Windows with free of charege tools, there is also the Visual Basic.net Express Edition. And the created programs runs with Mono also on Linux and MacOSX.
You are right - It's no secret? But be sure that I'll find a very fair way for that!
Its obviously where to go the Jabaco-way.
Manuel waits until the Jabaco-community is big enough and Jabaco is known enough. Then from future versions, will be sold licensed to use of Jabaco. The infrastructure already exists. You must already register yourself, until you can use Jabaco without limitations - otherwise its only a demo-program.
There are much more reasons.
If it would not his plan to do so, why then he makes Jabaco not OpenSource?
With which motivation? You are not limited in functions with Jabaco. The Framework is open and could be modified by everyone. I'll find a solution to make this software interesting for all kinds of audience. Why should anybody invest many years of hard work for free? I invested many time and money in this idea. The balance between my investments and what I'll get back from this project will never be profitable for me. There are several other reasons to keep the compiler closed (quality, coordination, ...). Most open projects are subsidized by large company. Found such a company and I'll think about
There existsing everytime the hope for me, that if Jabacos community is big enough, that there is someone (or a group of developers) who rewrite the Jabaco-Compiler in Jabaco itself as OpenSource.
I'm careful with Trolltech since the QT 4.5-release. They canceled the support for Java (Jambi) and I think that isn't a fair decision for several developers.
Btw. is since some days ago Qt 4.5 under the LGPL out. So it would be nice, if the compiler and the IDE - so long they are not rewritten in Jabaco - are ported to it.
Friday, March 6th 2009, 2:51am
I've tested with wine but I run in several problems. I'll try to fix them. VirtualBox could be a workaround for you to use Jabaco with Linux.
But I miss a Javaco IDE for Linux
Saturday, March 7th 2009, 10:55pm
RE: Jabaco IDE is a VB6 application?
Hello Manuel,
100 % agree with you !
I'm on the software part as well since 2001 with my FBSL project, I receive donations that allow me to pay for my web servers, because we all need some money to live, but money is not a goal, passion is a big engine that allow you to challenge your mind and give another meaning of life
Keep up the good work Manuel!
Yours,
Gerome GUILLEMIN
http://www.fbsl.net
Hi,
...
Anyway, thank you Manuel for this nice masterpiece of software engineering!
A1880
100 % agree with you !
I'm on the software part as well since 2001 with my FBSL project, I receive donations that allow me to pay for my web servers, because we all need some money to live, but money is not a goal, passion is a big engine that allow you to challenge your mind and give another meaning of life
Keep up the good work Manuel!
Yours,
Gerome GUILLEMIN
http://www.fbsl.net
Tuesday, March 10th 2009, 12:52am
RE: Jabaco IDE is a VB6 application?
You have no idea my friend called ME a genious like 500 times when I told him about Jabaco and I didn't even code it lmao, this projects like my new wife, even if its still in beta, my ONLY arguement is if he decides to go comercial is the price, I'm sick of seeing IDE's and stuff being sold for $500 I wouldn't mind if it was like 10 times cheaper then I wouldn't be so freaked about buying it, as we all know the economy is terrible but honestly I would donate to this project or buy the IDE etc... if it doesn't come out as a crazy priced project, or hopefully he will hook up those who have been here before he goes comercial with a generous discount thats more affordable, if he sells it for like less than 100 I might buy it long as its not restricted if I can still use it without any problems I don't care then tbh lol but yeah my only issue agaisn't this project being comercial is an exagerated price, the economy is terrible and I can't find myself buying a $500 priced program for a looooooong time. However if he gives us a discount that makes it affordable to us (long as he doesn't make it something impossible to buy for everyone else) then I would be happy, imo I think more people would buy something if it was under 100 dollards / euros as opposed to something that costs the price of a new computer, if I had $500 I would probably use it to buy a new computer or laptop or better yet, go on vacation lool! But I have nothing agaisn't him trying to make it worth his expenses we all know what its like (or some of us) you work for hours on a project and spend so much time on it and you want it not only to work and be succesful but if you can make a decent 'buck' out of it then it would be 'perfect'Hi,
to me, the Jabaco IDE looks like a VB6 application. It relies on (at least) six DLLs and three OCXs. Therefore, it should be quite a lot of work to port it to Unix and establish an X11 GUI.
Apart from earning a lot of money by selling a future version of the IDE, I can imagine some even more attractive reasons for Manuel to keep this project going. First of all, Jabaco is another cornerstone to become well-known as a software genius. An excellent reputation definitely is one of the best reasons to be (and stay) engaged. Other reasons include the resulting personal network, and the opportunities to sell consulting services. Finally, projects like Jabaco are simply fun due to the intellectual challenges involved. Again, learning is a good reason to spend some effort. Well, money is a perfectly valid aim for talented people. I do hope that Jabaco will be a commercial success.
Anyway, thank you Manuel for this nice masterpiece of software engineering!
A1880
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