Quoted from "sreesog"

Hi,
Does the death(?) of Swing around 2009 has anything to do with no further release of Jabaco after that very same year? In case that was a reason, what would be the future course that would be taken? Bundling Java swing libraries along with Jabaco, or switching to something else like SWT, or yet some other path?
Note: I am not much familiar with Java and its history, so please pardon me if I said something wrong. I am just in search of an extensible and safe VB6 alternative, so that I can develop few applications using the same, instead of resorting to some not so suitable of desktop alternatives such as php (using phpdesktop or so) even to develop desktop applications (so as to gain/maintain ease of use, platform Independence, feature rich controls, extensibility etc etc) . I am not a good coder and so cannot resort to use strong and complex languages like C++, Java etc to make simple applications. Further I hate .Net, with its huge framework libraries that becomes outdated and non-supported so soon! Apart from these, the only major option I am left with is to explore embarcadero Delphi, which I am unfamiliar with and so don't want to do. Recently I had to develop and astrology application for windows desktop and I found myself still resorting to VB 6 itself. What to do! (By that way that project got completed successfully, and the outcome is impressive.)
Thanks and regards,
Sreenadh

Quoted from "sreesog"

Hi jbExplorer,
Thanks for the suggestion, and thanks for guiding me to have a look at Clojure.
I am not in search of different languages, but in search of a rich IDE (having MDI and SDI forms, many controls that can be drag-dropped to the form, Database connection possibilities etc) which supports a familiar language, suitable mainly for desktop application development for windows platform and is extensible. That is why VB 6 was my favorite, and now Jabaco and Embarcado Delphi are under consideration. The other favorable alternative for me would be PHP Desktop because the developed application can be used on desktop and web at the same time, and I can use the rich availability of HTML/Javascript/CSS etc.
Whether I use Jabaco (which provides jars which can be decompiled), php (which can be obfuscated but which may not be good enough for code security), or .Net (which compiles to CLR which can be decompiled) code security is a problem. The same problem won't be there if VB 6, or Embarcado Delphi is used. But the problem with VB6 is that it is no more supported and do not support 64 bit or unicode and the problem with Embarcado Delphi is that it is too costly, huge and uses a language unfamiliar to me - i.e. a pascal variant. So looking for a VB6 alternative which supports MDI, SDI application development, with a rich collection of controls, supports unicode, supports multiple databases, is extensible, has a good IDE - I stumble upon Jabaco and with its VB6 similarity it heavily attracts my attention! Note that if VB6 was still there, and if it had unicode as well 64 bit support, I would have almost never looked for an alternative.
Clojure cannot be my choice because 1) It compiles to bytecode (and thus code security is a problem), 2) It uses a language unfamiliar to me (i.e. a Lisp variant), and 3) does not have a rich IDE that supports RAD through drag and drop controls, configurable properties etc.
Please note that if I choose Jabaco that would be as an alternative VB6, Embarcado Delphi Rad Studio, Microsoft .Net Visual Studio all of which have much much better IDE than Jabaco. Thus it is no wonder that Jabaco is not getting enough followers supporters, because its competition for user-base is against the giants in the field! So it will need a lot of effort from Manuel, and it would be a win of David against Goliaths. I see a great visionary and programming genius in Manuel. If he extends this task he started on Jabaco to few more steps (then it would be a great blessing to the global developer community, who are looking for an extensible, good, friendly, rich IDE for rapid application development) and for sure this would become a product that would be considered in par with Microsoft and Embarcado products, and would be head on competing with them and defeating them, winning the favor of numerous developers. But for that to happen certainly few more steps are needed. And based on what he has done already, I would say, only Manuel can do that!
Thanks and regards,
Sreenadh

Quoted from "sreesog"

Clojure cannot be my choice because 1) It compiles to bytecode (and thus code security is a problem), 2) It uses a language unfamiliar to me (i.e. a Lisp variant), and 3) does not have a rich IDE that supports RAD through drag and drop controls, configurable properties etc.

Quoted from "sreesog"

Clojure cannot be my choice because 1) It compiles to bytecode (and thus code security is a problem), 2) It uses a language unfamiliar to me (i.e. a Lisp variant), and 3) does not have a rich IDE that supports RAD through drag and drop controls, configurable properties etc.

Quoted from "jbExplorer"

Quoted from "sreesog"

Hi jbExplorer,
Thanks for the suggestion, and thanks for guiding me to have a look at Clojure.
I am not in search of different languages, but in search of a rich IDE (having MDI and SDI forms, many controls that can be drag-dropped to the form, Database connection possibilities etc) which supports a familiar language, suitable mainly for desktop application development for windows platform and is extensible. That is why VB 6 was my favorite, and now Jabaco and Embarcado Delphi are under consideration. The other favorable alternative for me would be PHP Desktop because the developed application can be used on desktop and web at the same time, and I can use the rich availability of HTML/Javascript/CSS etc.
Whether I use Jabaco (which provides jars which can be decompiled), php (which can be obfuscated but which may not be good enough for code security), or .Net (which compiles to CLR which can be decompiled) code security is a problem. The same problem won't be there if VB 6, or Embarcado Delphi is used. But the problem with VB6 is that it is no more supported and do not support 64 bit or unicode and the problem with Embarcado Delphi is that it is too costly, huge and uses a language unfamiliar to me - i.e. a pascal variant. So looking for a VB6 alternative which supports MDI, SDI application development, with a rich collection of controls, supports unicode, supports multiple databases, is extensible, has a good IDE - I stumble upon Jabaco and with its VB6 similarity it heavily attracts my attention! Note that if VB6 was still there, and if it had unicode as well 64 bit support, I would have almost never looked for an alternative.
Clojure cannot be my choice because 1) It compiles to bytecode (and thus code security is a problem), 2) It uses a language unfamiliar to me (i.e. a Lisp variant), and 3) does not have a rich IDE that supports RAD through drag and drop controls, configurable properties etc.
Please note that if I choose Jabaco that would be as an alternative VB6, Embarcado Delphi Rad Studio, Microsoft .Net Visual Studio all of which have much much better IDE than Jabaco. Thus it is no wonder that Jabaco is not getting enough followers supporters, because its competition for user-base is against the giants in the field! So it will need a lot of effort from Manuel, and it would be a win of David against Goliaths. I see a great visionary and programming genius in Manuel. If he extends this task he started on Jabaco to few more steps (then it would be a great blessing to the global developer community, who are looking for an extensible, good, friendly, rich IDE for rapid application development) and for sure this would become a product that would be considered in par with Microsoft and Embarcado products, and would be head on competing with them and defeating them, winning the favor of numerous developers. But for that to happen certainly few more steps are needed. And based on what he has done already, I would say, only Manuel can do that!
Thanks and regards,
Sreenadh

Quoted from "sreesog"

Clojure cannot be my choice because 1) It compiles to bytecode (and thus code security is a problem), 2) It uses a language unfamiliar to me (i.e. a Lisp variant), and 3) does not have a rich IDE that supports RAD through drag and drop controls, configurable properties etc.

Quoted from "sreesog"

Clojure cannot be my choice because 1) It compiles to bytecode (and thus code security is a problem), 2) It uses a language unfamiliar to me (i.e. a Lisp variant), and 3) does not have a rich IDE that supports RAD through drag and drop controls, configurable properties etc.

Well, I wasn't suggesting choose Clojure over Jabaco, but rather choosing them both.

Clojure has several IDEs, and it's easier to develop GUIs in Clojure Seesaw, than in pure Java Swing. Web development is also easier in Clojure, than in Java. For my part, I'm interested in Clojure for research purposes, but not yet for day-to-day development.

Java itself is way too verbose. There is too much required code and rules that need to be remembered, and the inflexibility of strong typing. Groovy is a MUCH better choice, than pure Java. But for quick desktop development, Jabaco and B4J are simply much easier to use, than BOTH Java and Groovy.

I get that you are going to wait, before making your decision. That's good, because it does seem like some changes are on the way.

Quoted from "jbExplorer"

That's good, because it does seem like some changes are on the way.